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    How tough is to Cross-Sell? Can Machine Learning help?



    Welcome to Velti’s webinar, broadcasted from Greece and The Netherlands in the beautiful Studio from T-Mobile Netherlands. Thanks for having me here. So we are here with our 10th webinar, and I’m glad you’re all watching. Today we will be talking about Cross-selling, how tough it is nowadays to cross-sell, and effective strategies to maximize profit. We will discuss Machine Learning capabilities and if and how they help to cross-sell.

    We have divided the webinar into 4 parts.

    First, I will tell you more about VELTI, who we are and what we do. Then we will tune in to Velti Office in Greece, where two of my colleagues, Migena Panavija, Client Success Director and Ioanna Kontoura, Client Success Manager will share their insights and expertize on challenges industries face when they cross-sell and how machine learning can help for a successful strategy.We host Lucia Riscado Cordas and Stan Waaijer, from T-Mobile Netherlands. The largest telecom provider in Netherlands. They will share their experience with working with Velti and their perspectives on cross-selling.If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to type them below and we will come back to it during the Webinar and otherwise after the Webinar in writing.

    My name is Mariëtta RobbéGroskamp, Business Development Director Europe and let’s get started!

    Velti was founded in the year 2000 and has more than 20 years of experience in the Mobile Marketing area. The main solutions that we offer can be classified into: CVM, Marketing Automation, Gamification, Loyalty, Permission Marketing and WebApps. Today, we are going to talk about Cross selling – how we help our Clients to improve sales revenue, improve customer satisfaction and Customer Lifetime Value. The Velti family is ever growing, currently we count more than 140 employees – 50% of which are software engineers ensuring that we are using the latest trends and technologies. The main offices of Velti are in Athens (where you also find the HQ and the development center), Dusseldorf and Dubai. We also have 5 additional sales offices in Europe, Middle East, Africa, and Latin America.

    In the next slide you see an overview of Velti’s footprint which is something we are extremely proud of.
    Here is an overview of the main clients we are working with. More than 300 clients representing 70 countries, from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Latin America. Clients such as T-Mobile Netherlands, Vodafone, Etisalat and Pepsi and many more. This is something we are really proud of. If you would like to know more about a specific case study, please do not hesitate to contact us.

    Before we talk to my colleague Migena from the Velti Athens office, let me share some general insights on Cross-selling. The first thing that comes into mind once you know your sales goals: are cross & upselling. And let me tell you, there are still people for whom such terms are yet confusing. They still struggle to tell the difference. Different from upselling, cross-selling is recommending additional, complementary products or services to existing customers to increase the sale value or boost customer lifetime value. It’s an effective way of getting people to spend more on top of what’s already been, or will be, purchased. A well-known tactic is Amazon. They drive 35% of sales and helps reduce churn. It will, of course, work best if you are offering the exact product that benefits the customer at that specific time. 
    It is a fact that very few companies are engaged in cross-selling activities. According to McKinsey’s research, they identified six core dimensions which help companies assess the cross-selling opportunity and increase their odds of capturing it.

    The first one: Complementarity. How well do the combined products and/or services complement one another? The size of cross-selling opportunity correlates directly with the potential to introduce new products to existing customers. Complimentary offerings are the MOST important factor in capturing connection. Are there strong customer relationships to build on? One key thing for the sales leaders is the need to access the strength of existing relationships and product relevance at an account or segment level. Capacity – Does the sales force have the capacity to focus on cross-selling? Leading organizations evaluate three aspects in particular: individual salespeople’s ability to prioritize the cross-sell program; The 4th core dimension is Capability. Are the right skills in place for cross-selling? Make an objective assessment of sales organization knowledge, skills, and experience. Leaders should understand the cross-sell cycle, existing knowledge and skills and the sales operating model. Compensation, are the right incentives in place for cross-selling? Incentives are important, especially for success in cross-selling. The last dimension is, Commitment. Is there commitment from the top to cross-sell? Designing such a program requires demonstrating leadership discipline and commitment at the top. Let me tell you that, if you successfully implement at least four of these criteria, it will ensure you the success of the cross-selling program.

    Every sale you make is crucial, but each one could be worth a whole lot more. All you need are the right strategies in place. Generally speaking, the probability of selling to an existing customer is 60-70%. While the probability of selling to a new one is just 5-20%. And 80% of future profits will come from 20% of your existing customer base. That is why you need to target your top customers first. You have to make the most of every customer and Cross selling strategies are your ticket to making that happen.
    But, believe it or not, the more cross-buying your customer does, the more money you stand to lose. This is one of those times we talk about growth costing money.  Cross-selling is profitable but do you know that 1 in 5 cross buying customers is unprofitable?
    You are wondering why? How come 1 in 5 cross-buying customers is unprofitable?
    For this and more on cross-selling challenges, let me tune in to Velti Office in Athens and give the mice to Migena, our Customer Success Director.  She will share with us her expertise on why companies fail with cross-selling and what are the challenges they are facing most nowadays with cross-selling campaigns.

    Hello Migena and glad to have you here today. How is everything?

    Hi Marietta, Happy to be here today!
    Well, last quarter of the year is usually tough, so we are working to close it successfully and keep the project performance high but also looking forward to Christmas.

    Ohhh Christmas, you are right indeed. When summer holidays are over, the next thing you think of is New Year celebration. But there is still time to reach there.
    Until then, let’s get to know more on cross-selling. The floor is all yours.

    Thank you Marietta!
    Well, as you mentioned earlier, the more cross-buying your customer does, the more money you stand to lose. But why is that?

    In this part of the webinar, I will mainly go through some key challenges industries face when designing cross-selling campaigns and then my colleague Ioanna will take over part 3, shedding some more lights on why they fail and what should they consider in order for them to maximize the response rate.

    So, what is the main goal of cross-selling? Obviously, to expand the relationship with the customer beyond the initial purchase performed, and increase your revenues, only when being used correctly. Following an analysis conducted by the Harvard Business Review, it was found out that 1 in 5 cross-buyers is unprofitable in spite of the fact that the average profit from customers who cross-buy is higher than that of those who don’t. It’s 70% of a merchant’s shortfall. And this falls in the cases when the cost of goods and of marketing to a given customer exceeds the revenue realized. And the more cross-buying an unprofitable customer does, the greater the loss. So how does this happen? And what can you do to cut it off? In the coming slides I will show you some variations of these type of customers.

    But before that, let me emphasize four main reasons cross-selling fails. Well, despite of unprofitable customers I already mentioned, who can actually make cross-selling a profit-losing strategy, cross-selling can be doomed to failure if there is no analysis from the very beginning. Another key factor why businesses fail when trying to cross-sell is the improper identification of target buyer. Besides that, you also you need to make sure you are cross-selling the right product. So, lets deep dive and analyze a bit more each of these factors.

    First, you need to know that it’s crucial to analyze customer data and metrics related to your cross-selling campaigns to evaluate which efforts produce cross-sales without reducing overall profitability, and which customers should be left out of cross-selling. In general, cross-selling too many options to too many customers can be a losing endeavor if you don’t have a well thought out strategy in place. Selling the solution to a problem rather than just selling a product is a core principle of sales. A McKinsey study found that the top-performing sellers were those who excelled at understanding their customers’ needs and delivering a relevant value proposition rather than simply focusing on the transaction.  To cross-sell effectively, sales team must first have a clear understanding of their customer and the product they are selling. Cross-selling of course does not come with a one-size-fits-all toolkit. Rather, it requires an element of personal judgement to identify when it’s the right opportunity to sell and when it’s better to focus solely on support. By combining training and technology, you can help your sales team identify appropriate opportunities to sell. Next challenge would be that of target buyers. Are you properly identifying who you are targeting? Not only customers but also their preferences differ. If you don’t understand your target buyers and why they cross-buy, your efforts will fail. The starting point of any selling process is to find the appropriate customers. You should have an opportunity to cross-sell them products or services to which they won’t be able to say no. Cross-selling won’t fail, if you know your customers, understand their needs, and how your products can benefit them. You remember the unprofitable customers I mentioned earlier? Well, before you launch your next cross-selling campaign, pause and ask yourself, “Do I really want these customers?” To identify and neutralize the influence of such customers, four different types have been revealed during the HBR study.

    1-Service demanders. These are the customers that call customer service for every little thing – even things that they could easily resolve themselves. The more they cross-buy, the more service they need, which will make your costs rise along with it.

    2-Revenue reversers. Customers in this segment generate revenue but then take it back. In many cases, the more a revenue reverser buys, the more he returns. At companies selling services, revenue reversals generally involve early termination contracts, or loans in the banking case. And if you’re selling physical goods, you need to watch out for them as they will return that revenue just like they returned the product. All of this costs money in handling, unboxed goods, and bank fees. 

    3-Promotion maximizers. These customers are always looking for a deal and avoid regularly priced products or services. They’re the ones that wait for discounts, free rewards, or coupons, promo codes and more. They tend to avoid regular-priced items.

    4-Spending limiters. Similar to promotion maximizers or discount lovers, these customers are always looking for ways to spend less. Customers in this segment spend only a small, fixed amount with a given company, either because of financial constraints or because they spread their purchases among several companies. If they cross-buy, they don’t increase their total spending with the company; they mainly reallocate it among a greater assortment of products or services. This generates cross-selling costs without increasing revenue.

    Well, cross-selling to any of these customers will undoubtedly lead to decreasing profits or accumulating losses, for two reasons: First, cross-selling generates marketing expenses. Second, cross-buying amplifies costs by extending undesirable behavior to a greater number of products or services.

    The last but not least, let me ask you. Are you Cross-selling the right Products?
    Irrelevant offers are another mistake that companies do when cross-selling. This is almost always down to a lack of planning or appropriate data. If you recommend a product that makes no sense – for instance, promoting a voice bundle to a heavy data user customer – you may drive that customer away. If you approach a customer by phone who would typically place orders or activate an offer via digital channels, you may not be able to make contact. So it seems customer’s interests, searching history, and previous orders are not taken into consideration. Thus, cross-selling inappropriate, of no value products to customers is one more reason why it fails. But as usual, numbers speak louder than words. Because businesses are struggling to cross-sell this doesn’t mean there are no success stories out there. There are cases of Apple, IKEA or Amazon where it is estimated that 35% of its revenue is generated by cross-sells. As a matter of fact, Amazon is the champion when it comes to cross-selling and mastering product recommendations. According to Forrester’s, product recommendations count for an average of 10-30% of e-commerce businesses’ revenues. According to different researches performed, 91% of customers are interested and likely to purchase, again, from brands that remember them by providing relevant offers. Therefore, don’t be intimidated and start personalizing.

    Well Marietta, approaching to the end of Part 2 I hope the insights provided helped our audience today having a better understanding on why the cross-selling tactics applied by businesses are not effective enough.
    Let me pass the mike back to you Marietta and move to the next part.

    Thank you Migena. Indeed, what you shared so far I believe was really helpful given there might be industries out there which are still question-marking what they are doing wrong and what should they do differently.

    Thank you so much for being with us today!

    Pleasure was all mine.

    Getting back to the question what they are doing wrong and what should they do differently. Well sometimes is pretty straight forward. You simply go from cross-selling to smart selling. Make data-driven decisions! As opposed to the traditional approach to cross-selling, companies should benefit from a valuable asset – data.

    But let me invite Ioanna, our Client Success Manager, to join and walk us through the third part of this webinar which is all about Machine Learning and its potential.

    Hi Ioanna, happy to see you here today!

    Hello Marietta, glad to be here and share some more light on why companies should consider start using machine learning.

    Yes, indeed Ioanna. Let’s move ahead and show us why nowadays it is difficult to cross-sell in a traditional way.

    Well, cross-selling is a target that every company is aiming to achieve regardless of the type of industry. Every company wants to incentivize its customers to spend more and activate as much services as possible. And what is the first thought that crosses marketers’ minds?
    If they want to cross-sell, they need to execute cross-selling campaigns!

    So, the very first step is to build this kind of campaigns. In order to build cross selling campaigns, you need to understand and clarify all offer elements. You need to know what is the exact content of the offer, the price, who might be interested and what would be the best communication method and language. For example, let’s say that you are from the telecom industry and you want to promote a new 2GB data bundle as an extra service to postpaid contracts. The campaign elements would be that it is a 2GB monthly data bundle that costs 9 euros. It is more luckily to have a successful campaign if you target people that are interested in using data and usually ran out of MBs like Martha! And considering that this would be an extra data package for extra surfing, tone of voice should be fun. If you are for example, from the e-commerce industry and you want to promote Jeans category in your website. Customers that purchased recently a matching product would be a very good starting point for your target group. Like Lisa that recently bought a pair of sandals that could match nicely with a summer jean shorts.

    There are several customer data that can help you understand the type of every customer, for example the recent purchases, the usage activity, the value segment that each customer belongs, demographics and many more. There are data in your products and campaigns as well. The offer elements as we call them, the type of product, the price, the validity period, if the offer has a reward etc. There are even data in the message that you decide to send to the end customer. The tone of voice that you will use, the channel of communication, the length of the message, how easily can someone ready the message, and others! So if you are looking for the key of success… Data is the answer! But, is building cross-selling campaigns enough? The answer is no! When your target is to cross-sell, this doesn’t mean 1-1 correspondence with cross-selling campaigns! These are representative examples of cross-selling campaigns, but how can they be more successful? There are several other parameters that affect this target so we always have to keep in mind the big picture!

    When your target is to cross-sell, building the respective campaigns is not enough, you should take it one step further and think of the whole customer lifecycle in order to create the right conditions to finally cross-sell. But how would you know when and how you can reach your customers more effectively?
    Machine learning is the answer. You have so many kinds of data in your customer base that utilizing them can help you reach your desire objectives. If you utilize them ‘Smart’ using machine learning algorithms, you can have results that exceed your expectations! But how could you use all these data to create the right conditions so that your customers accept the cross-selling offers? Knowing the data you need to build several type of campaigns to match all customer needs.
    For example a telecom company case that has the target of cross-selling, should also build campaigns to reduce churn, to increase the customers’ top up value and frequency, to surprise and delight them and of course to cross-sell.

    It is like a domino effect: When you reduce churn, you have more active customers. So, you boost them to do more frequent top ups and with higher value. Your active customers have more credit to spend and when contacting with the right cross-selling offer you can increase your campaigns’ response rate. Same in the e-commerce industry. When you target to cross-sell, apart from cross-selling campaigns, you should encourage customers to register and subscribe to your newsletter, to re-activate inactive customers, to surprise and delight the active ones with special treats. Again, it is like a domino effect: When you increase the percentage of the active base, you can send more communications, you have higher engagement and then when contacting the customers with the right cross-selling offer you can increase your campaigns response rate. It sounds a bit complicated to implement at the same time all these campaigns and have a multidimensional approach, I know. But if you want to success, you need to structure a holistic campaign plan to cover all needs and you need to communicate your customers with consistency having an ongoing dialogue with them.

    Here is where Machine Learning jumps in. Machine Learning can help you recommend the right type of communication to each of your customers at any time! Let’s say that we have 5 indicative customers Tom, Jane, George, Jim and Emma. Tom performed recently an order and usually orders on a monthly basis. Jane is a medium value customer that ordered two months ago but logged in to the app two days ago. George is a high value customer that his last order was at the beginning of September. Jim has almost 6 months to place an order and Emma is a low value customer that orders once every three months. And we have for example, a Fight inactivity campaign, a cross-selling campaign, a cross-selling campaign with reward and a surprise and delight one with a free gift. Machine learning can support you to take the right communication decision for each of your customers. So for example here, Tom will match with the Surprise and Delight campaign. Jane and George  with the Cross-selling campaign. Jim will receive the Fight Inactivity campaign and Emma will match with the Cross-selling campaign with discount.

    That’s why we built in Velti, Daedalus, our Machine Learning Platform that performs this process automated daily utilizing million data points. Every day Daedalus collects all data points for the customers to then combine them and build the 360o customer profile as we call it. Having all information available per customer, the scoring process starts and calculates the probability for every customer to accept every campaign available in our system. Based on the calculated scores, then Daedalus produces the Next Best Action per customer and decides to communicate the customers with the highest probabilities in their records.
    The positive or negative response of the campaign is included back in the system to optimize further the machine learning algorithms. And why to Use Daedalus as your machine learning solution? It has state-of-the art algorithms that result in increased targeting accuracy vs. the traditional CVM practices. It produces data-based actionable customer insights, based on millions of data points It is a fully automated solution with minimum human intervention after setup. It is a self-adjusting and self-learning platform with proven high performance. And what are the KPIs reached when using Daedalus? More than 26 million unique customers scored daily, 164% higher response rates in Smart Machine Learning campaigns than manual traditional targeting and 25% less communications sent to customers. That’s why it is also an awarded solution!

    So, Marietta, I hope I shared some interesting insights about how Machine Learning can help in cross-selling.

    Thank you so much Ioanna for all this information!

    Your welcome, Marietta. I was really happy to be part of this!

    Thank you Ioanna and also Migena for sharing these great insights, learning more about the pitfalls and why Machine Learning is the key!

    We approaching already the last part of the webinar and that is the interview with T-Mobile Netherlands. T-Mobile is the largest mobile provider in the Netherlands with 7 million mobile customers. The market strategy of T-Mobile Netherlands is characterized by a challenger mindset, they say customers can expect T-Mobile to compete with the status quo in all market segments and on all fronts. T-Mobile is a data-driven organization, they strive for maximum customer satisfaction and optimal impact of their marketing activities for all 4 brands T-Mobile, Tele2, Ben and Simpel. T-Mobile is constantly looking for a more personal customer approach across all media and channels. For over 10 years, Velti and T-Mobile Netherlands have been working together on T-Mobile prepaid and have achieved great success.

    Today we get the chance to talk with two special guests from T-Mobile Netherlands, Stan Waaijer – Stan holds a Master’s Degree in Marketing, and is making quick progress in the marketing world at T-Mobile Netherlands. He gained solid knowledge in online marketing, e-commerce and sales. Stan is a Marketing Manager at T-Mobile Netherlands, for the Brand Simpel and T-Mobile Prepaid. With Velti and Stan worked together on Prepaid Surprise Loyalty Program. He has a passion for consumer electronics, internet technologies and of course mobile devices and knows very well what is happening in the consumer landscape. Lucia Riscado Cordas, is an expert in transforming data into actionable insights. She is the Audience Insight Specialist at T-Mobile Netherlands and is responsible for Daedalus, Velti’s ML platform. She holds a Master’s of Business Administration, her analytical and social skills allow her for addressing complex matters. Lucia is passionate about connecting stakeholders from varied organizational levels and has a strong sense of integrity and inclusivity. Both, will elaborate more on how important it is to cross-sell and what role did Velti play in increasing their business KPIs. Let’s welcome them both!

    Welcome Stan and Lucia! Great for having you here today! So, lets jump immediately in to the first question.
    According to your opinion, is cross selling a skill?

    Yeah, I do really think that the cross selling is a skill. Just as deep selling is a skill, as upselling is a skill and just normal selling is a skill. I believe that the order to succeed at cross selling, is absolutely necessary for business to understand consumer behavior and needs. If you know, how costumers behave and what their needs are, you can start thinking about how can I develop or offer complimentary products to fulfilled those needs and as value. In this case, you don’t want to think about only are valued to your business, but also about how you can value to your customers. So of course, as a four profit business, you always looking for opportunities to increase your revenues. But you always have got to keep on mind, that although cross selling can be an amazing technique, it can also be as self-interested, like selfish. If you do it incorrectly. So, you have got to figure out, what’s you can offer to costumer with, actually it’s extra value for the products services they are using right now and which is also profitable for you. And I see that as a skill that you can learn and which takes time and effort to learn.

    What is the key to building successful cross selling campaigns and your opinion?

    I think, in my opinion as I mentioned before in the first questions, that the key for successful cross selling campaigns is understanding your costumers. So, you need to be aware of the costumers needs and wishing’s and sometimes using it before that they know they want that. And example, we offer. T-Mobile recently, we launched MultiSIM for Apple and Android recently. A multiSIM is essentially a special SIM card that you can put in your android or apple smartwatch. So, that you can leave your phone at the house. So, you don’t need to be connected with your phone at all times. And we are actually, the first brand in the Netherlands to introduce this for both, apple and android’s wearables. And it’s an excellent example for cross selling campaign, because right now you can use your smartwatch, just like you can use your phone and that means that we are able to sell more smartwatches, more SIMS and also more handset because like I said we are the only one offering that. So, if you are a competitor and you want this, you need to change to us. So, we can offer you a good handset deal, we can offer you a good simony deal because we offer you a good multiSIM with according smartwatch. So, I believe understanding your costumers and also understanding what is happening in the market right now, you can elevate users experience of the current part they are using with additional services or products, like we did with MultiSIM. And I also believe before that as a business, you need to try to not to be to pushier to self-centered. So, you don’t need to have a hidden agenda because customers will see that, customers will know if you are faking or just trying to get a profit out of here. You need to offer something that is valuable to them and also valuable to us, as a business. So, you need to be transparent and try to get your customers to trust you.

    Next one is, what do you think is the most challenging when cross selling?

    Well, that’s a tricky question of course! So, I believe that if cross selling is on right, you can nurture a maximizer customer relationship as I just explained, but the most challenging expect is to know your customer and to identify which are interested in what’s products exactly. So, with respect to optimizing content, too many choices can offer around the customer. And it can actually mean that the customer not going buy anything at all. So for example, if you get an email about six hundred products that a company selling, it’s going to be too much, it’s not wannabe relevant, it’s not personal and it’s going to be too much. And with respect, to optimizing the time of the campaigning is also really important to know when a customer needs it. If you are pushing, I think Stan mention in the question before, being to pushier and asking customer too many times, if you want a product, it going to scared the customer away. Maybe even lower customer satisfaction and lower intentions. It’s really important to take these challenges in to account.

    Yeah, I think adding to that, if the key to understand your customer, of the keys to understand your customer and that means that the most challenging aspect is gaining this information, because for telecom provider estimable, we have a lot of customers and there are a lot of customers journeys and experiences happening online. And when everything happening online is very difficult to really know what the customer wants, what they need and what is happening.
    So, how can we get this information?  I believe that, this is when data comes in to play.  There is a lot of data available, which can use to improve our crossing opportunities. Especially for us, as a Telecom provider like I said we have a lot customers, but the challenging is converting this data to available insights. Likely there are a lot of to use for all of them, analytic tooling, a lot of prediction models, machine learning. So, we don’t have to do all the work by ourselves and they can help a great deal in understanding our customers. And especially machine learning it can and it already does help us immensely, but we also got to watch out that we don’t go too far, missus’s data, misinterpret data or even worse failed the privacy of our customers. So I do think that data, although data can help us a lots, and it already does help a lot in understanding a customer. Is also a little fine line to be working on that, because you can’t go too far.
    We try to really respect the privacy of our customers in that aspect.

    Yeah, very smart! With the GDPR definitely.

    Yeah, of course GDPR ruling EU.

    Yeah true!
    So the next one, we have a loyalty program in T-Mobile. Yeah, of course prepaid surprise.
    Do you believe that these projects, will help to cross sell?

    Yeah, I really do. I think that prepaid surprise loyalty program permanently aims to keep our customers happy. So for people that they don’t know our prepaid surprise program, is that its time customer performs top up, so top up their credits if you have like a couple of euros left on your prepaid, you can buy code for 10 or 20 euros. Every time a customer does that they receive free prepaid surprise code and which they can have a chance to win a physical price in a monthly rows. Always win something, so we always give them a little bit of data, a little bit of calls or texts but you can win big prices, like a TV or tablet or something like that. I believe that with this program we keep our customers happy and that increases their brands engagement but also mps score and if customers are happy with what we offer for standards services and what we offer extra as loyalty bonus, our cross sell programs will benefit from that, because the goal from loyalty program is to motivate repeat purchases from the customer and that also helps our business because you want to create, you want to build trust between the customer and the business and I do think that a appropriate surprise program really helps.

    Now you Lucia, because T-mobiles Netherlands also using Daedalus Velti’s machine learning platform.
    Did Daedalus help you increase the bundle penetration customer base?

    Yes, I will definitely say yes. We have been working together for a long time. So Daedalus the program objective basically is to use next best action to predict what a customer will need at the best time. And also we use machine learning algorithms for customer’s expectation to maximize the performance of mobile campaigns for prepaid customers. So we actually have these both, two aspects that combine in Daedalus. So, next best action is very powerful, as I just mentioned, as it understands what the customer wants and what time so, the campaign is really automized. Yeah, and even though that thought out all of the prepaid market, the bases are declining year on year. We do see very good results and Daedalus has really help us increase sales and values during the past year.
    So, we really see great results and in cross sell performance and also during our collaboration we are able to farther improve that a program by pilot with closing data and analytics technique. And the goal actually of this, is to close your base and to create segments with the same characteristics, so you can really target your campaigning on these specific segments. And it really makes our campaigning more effective and more personalized. So, using this, were able to maximized the bundle penetration in our customer base and really has been actually a great success and we are really happy with it. So, it has increase both to success rate of the campaigns and a tone number of conversions which is really record values in all campaigns. So, over all definitely a strongest to your question.

    Okay, thanks! Thanks for that!
    So what’s should industries consider when they approach cross buyers?
    Is there one valuable piece of advice you think is worthy to share with our audience?

    Yeah, I think like we said before, if you want start cross selling you really need to know your audience which cross selling. So this is really only about knowing your customer but also knowing which type of customer you want to reach with your specific cross selling, because of course you can understand your customers but also need to understand when and why and how you want to approach these customers. So, you really need to come up with way to reach the right customer for your specific campaign. So now to do this you can may be try to create buyer personas or like we do with Daedalus segmentate your customer base in to different groups and you can use a lot of different verbal’s. So, in generally you can maybe use demographics or geographic or behavior verbal’s and for Daedalus we also use usage data of customers and with that we can really get the right campaign to the right customer. So, because like we said Daedalus we are able to create different by selecting multiple target area and in combination with machine learning. Daedalus really sensed out the campaigns with highest possible conversion rates for every close data we create. Base on all usage data that we have and in this way the customer benefits from this because we send them an attractive campaigns at the right time and for us, it always, it also benefits because we are having higher arbitration. So, I think to some updates and use all data available that you have and try to use this to segment or create clusters in your customer base, so you can send out the divine campaign at the right time to the right group.

    Yeah, really nice!
    Could you name a few reasons why someone could start machine learning in their marketing campaigns?

    Well, I think Daedalus is such a great example of this. It has really help us automates our marketing campaigns. I think this is very clear that if we would send out everything manually and find the right moment and the right campaign for each customer or segment, it really would have been much more work and the great thing is of machine learning that it keeps on learning, so its never-ending learning machine basically. So, yeah, with Daedalus we can successfully also define in to segments and send the right offers at the right time with higher conversion rates than ever before so I think a deals we see the direct visuals and it really helps us to improve our campaigning.

    Yeah and of course, machine learning in general can decrease cost because with the machine learning enabled marketing automation companies can drive down cost and free marketers time for more value added test than instead of a marketer spending his time on just repetitive test, because it is very difficult to all the campaigns that we have Daedalus if you need to do that yourself it will be a lot of time and I don’t think you can do better than they listen can do it right now because it’s a machine learning it learns and learns it knows I believe a lot more than one marketer could know at this time.
    So yeah, you don’t have all you have the time always has the time to set up these campaigns and to manage to send them out, because Daedalus just helps alternate this progress and machine learning also can often support trends in big data much faster than we can recognizing patterns in a natural ability. For us, it’s the way that the human intelligence works and machine learning tries to also do this, they try to recognize patterns but the truth is that the bigger the books of data is that you have a machine learning program that has been correctly set up will always be faster than a human can do. If you have thousands of customers or millions of customers, it will be difficult to optimize each and every campaign for them but only using your own head. So I really do believe that machine learning this is much more efficiency process.

    Yeah, definitely believe that as well. This is question about Velti. Can you choose three words which regards to Velti and T- Mobile corporation?

    Yeah, for first word I would choose is trust. We have been working a long time now together a lot of people have come and go but still Velti, 10 years I believe right now. Trusting this foundation is a successful partnership and it is crucial for that to be a transparent and honest relationship between two businesses, and I believe that we have achieve that in the years at Velti and T-Mobile have been working together. And I think for the second word I will use communications, especially open communication. I believe that when you enter in partnership, open and honestly communication is very important and subject as such money matters or clashing strategies and management styles. It can be very difficult to address these, but they have to be addressed and I believe that we both communicate openly to each other. So T-Mobile and Velti which prevents all one fiction between with our partnership. So I don’t think we have any secrets for each other, we have any hidden agendas. I really do believe that we have very trusting and open relationship.


    Yeah, I totally agree with Stan of course and then lastly the word that came to my mind was proactivity. So I feel like Velti has been throughout all the years that we’ve been working together, Velti is really proactive and this approach is really about recognizing future opportunities, as well as problems and the thinking of opportunity, problem solving, how to handle it, planning they always try to help you look forward and manage as opportunities as well as problems and I think this really helps, make the partnership really reliable. So, I would say Velti is reliable because they are so proactive and really trying to help you and move forward and get better in the future. So, we really thinking great steps together and defiantly hoping to make some more beautiful steps in the future.

    Yeah, definitely! Thanks for that and also Velti colleagues in Greece!
    We ready approaching to last question of the webinar and that’s actually a nice question about the future, because how do you see the future of marketing?

    That’s a good question definitely. Well some trends that I identified working from the data side of marketing I would have to say. Our first of all, I think that data driven customer approach, I think we mentioned it a lot in in the seminar already, in the webinar sorry but I think it will really help Reach for maximum customer satisfaction optimal impact of your marketing activity. So really leveraging your data insights and trying to make your campaigns as personal and relevant to the customer as possible. I think it’s really a very important trend that I think almost any company should really step into. And then a second trend that I personally have identified, I think is that social channels will be the new internet. So, I think a lot of people already are aware about TikTok has actually surpassed Google in being bigger search engine at the moment. At least for Gen-Z, that generation but this is of course going to be our future workforce. So I think marketing is all about finding the places where your customers are clustered and running targeted promotional campaigns there. So, from this standpoint social media can be ideal for running your promotions especially in the future. So this is really, I think a trend that I’ve spotted and lastly I think sustainability, in terms of what our companies going to communicate on. So, I first spoken about your data strategy, then platform wise and now sustainability content wise. I think is going to be a critical trend for advertisements, as consumer’s passions and believe in the need for change is really growing. So and I think this is only going to grow stronger. This is also really push forward by the Gen –Z and Millennials, so this is called the green generation so to say and this is already in most countries the largest part of the work for. So it’s really important to take this into account and I saw a very inspiring quotes from a former, a marketing officer of IKEA that I found quite inspiring. But it’s like, if you haven’t got this base covered yet, in five years it’s not going to be a brand, but it does going to be a commodity. And I think of course it’s quite the statement but, I do really believe that the demand for sustainability is really growing and it’s two-fold it’s going, it’s coming from the governmental policies that’s going to pressure companies, in doing better on sustainability wise. But it’s also a big part from the actually the customer right in sustainability transform to these just three trends from a data point of view in marketing that I’ve identified.

    Really nice! Thanks for sharing this!

    Yeah, like Lucia said, I think that more data driven customer approach to the future and I think we see happening online right now is that a lot of companies still have a web first mindset and I need to develop mobile first mindset. Because as of today mobile commerce traffic drives over 50% of e-commerce in developed countries and almost worldwide right now and app usage on your phone, it’s like 90% of all mobile of time. So, more than the entire browse your based internet as a whole. It’s clear that the most sales will be threatened by apps in the future not only be websites any more. It doesn’t mean that it’s the end of the website era they are also a lot of mobile optimized websites are still in operation right now. But I do think that ether a very nice optimized mobile website or an excellent mobile app will be the future for your business to sell and of course to cross sell like we just had before but not only cross sell but just any type of selling it will be on mobile devices. And I think also trend there is happening is we have a lot of talk about things like the metaverse and block chain and nfts. But I do believe that’s just a little bit one step away for any other company that isn’t Facebook or gaming company I think the metaverse is still some time away. There isn’t really a consensus on what it means, nobody really knows what metaverse truly means because there are so many different companies trying to create their metaverse like Facebook building their own VR social platforms, you have gaming company like Rob lox that are facilitating user generated video games and some companies are only creating video games that have to happen to have an nft attachment only there are there to make money off of it they don’t have to pick vision about what they want to do with it, they just see it as a quick cash and grab. So I think there is a little bit of a marketing hype around the whole idea of the metaverse but I also think that we it doesn’t mean we can ignore it because, like the internet access in the 1970s already but we really didn’t know about the internet was at that time. We didn’t have a definition for it at that time and if you look at it back now you’re like, of course that we know we know what it is now but, at the time people have the wellness ideas about what’s the internet really until.
    So I think as a marketer you should be aware of the trans happening in the digital landscape and especially for the metaverse you we need to be aware of it. I don’t think necessarily do something about it now, but keep it in mind and perhaps you see some opportunity in the future, to step more into the digital landscape and only old website or your physical store or something like that. I think really online is the future for marketing. The future for marketing is digital marketing, I believe.

    That’s a nice quote to end the webinar with. Digital marketing is the future of Marketing

    Statements! Good one.

    Yes, I want to thank you so much for this great interview and great insights you shared with us!

    And with this our Webinar already comes to an end! As you can see using data science techniques in cross selling, will help you to identify the best customer to target, reach best offers and the right time. Do you also want to start with cross selling?
    We are more than happy to help you with selecting the right products and services for cross selling. Witch customers are eligible for cross selling and setting for cross selling campaign, customer journey and of course the execution. If you do it well, cross selling boost your revenues, increase customer’s satisfaction, engagement and helps you achieve a solid long term relationship with your customers. Now, I hope you enjoyed learning about cross selling, seeing some of our successful case studies and hearing from our experts on this topic, Stan and Lucia from T- Mobiles Netherlands and my colleagues Migena and Ioanna.

    Big thanks to T-Mobile Netherlands for having me in this beautiful studio!

    If there are any questions or you would like to talk about any business opportunities or interested to start cross-selling solution yourself! Please don’t hesitate to drop us an email at Where we also would like to offer you a FREE 1:1 consultation with the Velti experts. Just drop us an email at:
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    For now, have a great day and goodbye